WHAT ABOUT THE MILITARY DRAFT

DRAFT DODGER

I must say I took offense at your animated use of the term 'draft dodger' when looking directly at me in order to undermine any argument I put forth that differed from yours re: Obama's decision to send troops to Viet Nam. Here is a passage from Wikipedia

'Of the nearly 16 million men not engaged in active military service, 96% were exempted (typically because of jobs including other military service), deferred (usually for educational reasons), or disqualified (usually for physical and mental deficiencies but also for criminal records to include draft violations).[4] Draft offenders in the last category numbered nearly 500,000 but less than 10,000 were convicted or imprisoned for draft violations.[8] Finally, as many as 100,000 draft eligible males fled the country.[31] [32

I guess the other 96% of the eligible male population were draft dodgers also -- The population of the US at the time, was over 200 million and a total of 2.1 million served in Viet Nam -- I'm shocked that they only listed 16 million as eligible. But accepting that number, it remains that the overwhelming majority of American males did not serve. Thanks for the cheap shot.

Ed, I absolutely apologize. I will have to be honest, I don't know from shit what I am saying half the time. In fact, you and I have discussed before; I actually have never felt badly toward anyone who could get out of the draft. In fact, so many did during the Vietnam era, more power to them is my view.

And, I am sure it is no comfort to you but you actually are in a long line of guys that I have ticked off by running my mouth. There are times that I think I'm getting better but things like this happen and I don't think so and I assure you, I don't take the asking of forgiveness lightly or in offering an apology. It was thoughtless of me. Sorry. My only excuse and this is a poor one: I think that one of the things is that it is so nice for me to be in a group where you don't have to be concerned what you say, that, on occasion, I go over the top. Most of my life, I've had to be around people that I didn't particular like and had to watch my words (still have too, lots) and so I just don't think. Sorry. God bless. And, thanks for calling me on it. jda

SUMS UP THE DRAFT

I'm sorry I missed the conversation regarding the draft. It was such a screwy system, a holdover from WWII/Korea. I guess if I stayed in the Merchant Marine, I probably would never have served in the USMC. But, I did what I did, no regrets. If I had made it into the airwing as I had hoped, I would have ended up in the Hanoi Hilton w/ McCain, or worse:Hank's wingman over North Viet! I don't know about Ed's service; perhaps he had a deferment or 4F:
The Italian Captain

I've always thought that a volunteer army is a bad idea (aside from the officers corps that largely arise through our military academies). It sets apart a segment of our society ("the Military") that is regarded quite differently from the rest of us. Whether you see that as a good thging or a bad thing, the worst factor is, I think, that it (i.e., no conscription) absolves huge numbers of able bodied men and women of having to make an obligatory contribution to our country. I know this is an unpopular view, but I think national service should be mandatory (as in Israel?), and even those who cannot serve in the military (for health reasons, for example) can surely serve in something like a domestic Peace Corps. Sometimes it seems we have have become a nation of self-indulgent evaders with no sense of Community. So, Jerry, we arrive back where we started, with arrogant politicians and an errant electorate. Seems that Ambrose Bierce was right again. He defines VOTE as "The instrument and symbol of a freeman's power to make a fool of himself and a wreck of his country."


i am amazed there isnt a national movement for mandatory community service since there are more poor and middle class who would support same than those enfranchised and rich to thwart such a move. Congress is the culprit in this scenario and that is why I believe they are all despicable!

the ADM

BEST THING THAT EVER HAPPENED TO ME

My wife often fills me in on the titillating conversations she has with her gym partners. For me, I like quiet while I'm working out but apparently there are a couple of guys who keep a running conversation going when my wife is around. And, she says she always learns things. Today's topic had to do with the military. I think they were probably leading off the discussion with talking about the president's new proposal on Community Service. I haven't read it yet but it looks like at least a start. But, my wife's two buds today mainly were reminising about their military experience. One served in the Air Force and the other the Army. The Air Force one said that his wife constantly said that he had so many war stories about his time serving, how could he have been in only four years? At the time, he said, he hated it but as he looks back on the four years, the best experiences of his life. What he mirrors are the comments of vets over and over. And, the other talkative bud said that it was the best thing that ever happened to him. Why? I was so stupid and the military shaped me up. Quite a testimony and one that could be repeated thousands and thousands of time. His further comments supported a draft. "I think everybody should have to serve in the military. At that age, teenagers are stupid, making decisions that affect them the rest of their lives, often very negative ones. The military gives them time to mature." Good comments.

So why did the Volunteer Army become a part of our national landscape. Listening to the wrong voices, a naive concept that the end of war meant the need for a standing Army was less, honest and sincere people who weren't thinking--my view. The troubling issue to me is that what we have today is essentially a mercenary military. We pay other peoples' kids to fight our wars. In a Democracy, this is simply not right, better still, this is morally wrong in my opinion.

Email dialogue on SERVING

Hey Sir,
It's kind of interesting that this subject has come up several different ways over the last few days.
* Dad and I were discussing the woes of the Army football program recently. To me it's indicative of the times - higher academic standards for their atheletes; the Army's "mission" is less attractive to the majority of potential recruits than that of the other service academies; the "call to service" is nowhere near as strong as it was just a few generations ago...
* A recent story in the Army Times about the shift in the states where the majority of enlistees are coming from. The end result being a potentially frightening trend away from the military being a microcosm of our society.
* Another recent story about the recession driving the interest in Military Service up. The pessimist in me says this is bad, people think so lowly of "Service to Country" that it is a last ditch effort in hard times. The optimist in me says it's good, it could perhaps expand the representation from other states and push us back towards our military being a microcosm of our society. This is far more important than most people realize.
I am truely grateful that our country is making up for it's past mistakes in it's treatment of veterans. I am grateful for those that served before me to include you and my father, who in my opinion sacrificed far more than me and my generation. But as I get ready to head out the door for my 3rd deployment in 5yrs I can't help but wonder what the average American today considers a sacrifice on their part.
Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays to you and your family. mr, CW4

A FUTURE MILITARY THAT WORKS

The editorial, A Military for a Dangerous New World, in Sunday's NY Times was "right on." I see one gigantic caveat, we simply cannot afford a Volunteer Army with the size and mobility to fight present and future wars. Adding troops? From where? We are paying huge bonuses to retain soldiers with critical skills with no end in sight. And, while the economy is probably going to help recruiting, building up and retaining Forces to the neccesary levels is going to be difficult, if not impossible.

We have yet to face the fact that we have to return to some system of the draft. My suggestion is in the form of community service. Youngsters between the ages of 18-26 would have a choice of a myriad of possibilities such as Teach America or Habitat for Humanity or they could design their own.

If we had some sort of conscription into Community Service where all would serve, enough I believe would be challenged by military service that the size of the armed forces could be maintained. We would always need a military cadre and specialized soldiers but intially, foot soldiers would fill the ranks as their community service. Modeled on a combination of some form of Israel, South Korea, and even Germany'S approach, we could make this work. We are smart people and our plan should be long range.

JOINING UP

Read the article on "My Marine"...good article. Reminds me of when I joined the Navy at 17 in my senior year of high school...had no idea what I wanted to do. A friend of mine from Dunn joined with me. I remember telling mama and daddy that I wanted to join...basically they said.."are you sure you want to do this'? ...they had to sign for me since I was only seventeen at the time....I signed in December of 1976 and went to bootcamp July 18th of 1977. Also..did not know that November 10th was 233rd birthday of Marine Corps...November 10th was our 24 year wedding anniversary. wa



Do you ever wish you had stayed in the Navy? Your Dad use to tell me all the time that he wished he had stayed.

I think lots about where we are in our country, as relates to the military. I heard this guy with the VFW interviewed on NPR the other day and the interviewer said something that I have thought for some time: she said something like, "With all our financial difficulties, in the future, are we going to be able to afford this very expensive military?" His reply I thought was very good. He said, "We have a Volunteer Army and we simply have to pay them for their sacrifices. And, we are not talking a hand out but a hand up, meaning that we owe them and their families for what they do.

We do owe them but essentially we have a mercenary force and they are expensive. Would we be better off to institute some sort of Community Service where all had to serve, not necessarily in the military but other stuff. And, hope, of course, that enough young Americans would want to be challenged with the military. I have surely been thinking this obviously. Politically, we don't have the moral will to institute the draft but something similar might work. da

CONNECTED

Recently, I got together with three Vietnam vet buddies to tell war stories, talk politics and kind of “Be” to use a movie line from my favorite baseball picture, Bull Durham. Kevin Costner says to his love interest, “I don’t want to talk baseball, I just want to be.” I understand. With fellow vets, we often simply want to be.

I like to think of vets as a fraternity, especially Vietnam vets. Our usual line is that we fought a war in Vietnam and then we fought one at home. For at least ten years or so, we were virtually silent, reluctant to admit we were Vietnam vets as for some insane view, immediately after Vietnam, vets were identified with the ills of our involvement in Vietnam. For Iraqi vets, they don't have to face this insult as Americans who pay any attention don't want to make the same mistake again. A soldier we understand is just doing his job.

Being a vet doesn’t mean that we all think alike but there is the idea of the shared experience and trust me on this: there is nothing like combat that creates comraderie. Although the other night, we didn’t see eye to eye on politics or most related subjects, however, we did all agree on one subject; the military is in a mess and we fear for its future. It is an institution that we all loved dearly. And, although most Americans who care today talk about supporting the troops, it is somewhat hollow since so few serve. Most don’t even know anyone who is in the military.

During Vietnam, we had the military draft and the country was more connected to the war and to the soldiers. Helped along by the protest movement, most saw Vietnam as something we were all a part of, right or wrong. I, for one, think the protest movement got too much credit for ending the war, still, they were connected. Not so today. We have a Volunteer Army and most people simply see us paying them to fight for us and so it is "next case." A mercenary force? Close. I am a little reluctant to call it mercenary as mercenary denotes a lack of emotion or commitment, at least in my mind's eye. The Voluntary Force is anything but uncommitteed. From where I stand, they are a superb military, well trained and by in large, well equipped. But and a big BUT: unrepresentative of America--a downer in terms of our democracy.

At the very least, we ought to have some sort of National Service. This is truly something in which us old vets totally agree. It doesn’t have to be the military, it could be Teach America, Habitat for Humanity, any nonprofit or the person could choose their own service. This is no novel idea, it is on the drawing board by a few folks but where it has no attention is on the National Stage. And, I think that either of the presidential candidates could make alot of money figuratively speaking if they were to choose this path. As a country, we have not been asked to sacrifice at all for a war that is draining us. We believe it is going to catch up to us. And, for four old vet, we see it sooner than later and by not giving America’s youth an option to serve hurts them and America. Shame on us.